Frank Turner has been riding a wave of success recently here in the states and overseas following his latest album, Poetry for the Deed. Hes been touring for months on end, and is hitting many U.S. festivals this year, including Coachella, Lollapalooza, ACL, and this past months Bonnaroo. I caught up with him there and we discussed tattoos, touring the states, and his upcoming projects; including a possible booze-fueled album with Jon Snodgrass, an evil-electro side project, writing his first book, and his official follow-up to Poetry of the Deed.
Okay, first of all, how are you enjoying being here [at Bonnaroo] so far?
Pretty good, I mean we got in this morning Im pretty jet-lagged to be honest with you like I arrived in the states yesterday, and I was in the U.K. for one day before that and before that I was in Israel. So, like, ohh I dont know what fucking county Im in {laughs}. But yeah, good. Bonnaroo seems cool. Im Im wary of saying this because I dont wanna sound patronizing and I am actually trying to make a positive comment, but its funny festival culture is so much deeper engrained in the music scene in the U.K. that its kind of nice for me coming to bigger festivals in the States in my experience, because everyone is kind of just getting used to what festivaling is like and its cool because it means you definitely kind of avoid the festival monster kind of weirdos and all that. And its just kind of a sunnier disposition, which seems cool. We went around like we went on a ferris wheel, that was pretty cool. We were just sitting on top going AWESOME! (laughs) So yeah, Bonnaroo seems like fun.
Yeah theres definitely a smaller festival scene in America.
Sure, I mean this is a big festival, dont get me wrong, but in the U.K theres like multiple festivals every weekend and all that.
Yeah, no comparison. So you just came from the U.K. and Israel, and youre going to fly out to the other Manchester right after this right?
Yes, the other Manchester, yes. Next week is going to be madness. Im opening up for Green Day for two shows and theyre stadium shows, so the Manchester, U.K. show Im doing is 50 thousand people and the London show is 90 thousand people. So Im a little bit nervous, Im not gonna lie.
Have you done something that big before?
No I havent done anything that big before. I mean I played for 20 thousand people once, but you know, 90 is more than 20. I checked the numbers. (laughs) But I mean its funny because on the one hand I kind of oscillate between two different points of view on it, because on the one hand its kind of like Holy shit fuck! but then the other time its like playing a show is playing a show. Just put your head down and do what you do well. You know? It shouldnt make that much difference how many people are around. So I kind of pinball back and forth between those two opinions on it, depending on how drunk I am and what time of day it is. (laughs)
But do you generally prefer the smaller shows just for fans?
You know, for me, the thing that makes a good show or a bad show is that unquantifiable thing atmosphere. Like, Ive seen Springsteen play to 60 thousand people and have an incredible atmosphere, and Ive seen bands play to 200 people and have shit atmosphere. You know what I mean? Its not nearly, its not about what venue or what number of people, its something about the energy and the atmosphere in the room. I like playing shows with good energy and good atmosphere, and whether thats a stadium show or a house show to three people, it doesnt matter. One of my favorite shows I ever played was I played a show in Brooklyn to four people. Four people came to the show, so I just fucked off the PA – they were sat at a table and I just went and sat with them and we were basically just talking and I was playing some and it was just really cool. And all four of those people are now really big fans of mine, so
Cool. Yeah thats one great way to make fans, but another is doing those big shows to get introduced to a new audience.
Yeah, definitely. Both are exciting.
So you used to be in some harder bands like Million Dead, whats the transition been like going from that to a more folksy, acoustic style?
Well at the end of the day its been fine, for two reasons. First of all, because its gone well, and secondly its what I wanted to do and felt like it was the right thing to do. I mean it wasnt the obvious move. It seemed obvious to me, but retrospectively I look back at it and go Wow I was out of my fucking mind. And the weird thing is, its kind of like, in a perverse way the easy thing to do wouldve been to form another hardcore band, because Million Dead did okay in the U.K and if I had just joined another hardcore band straight away we probably couldve signed like a major deal within like a months time. It wouldve been fine and we wouldve been around for a couple of years and that wouldve been that. But it wouldve been quite boring.
I remember at the time a lot of people were just like wow youre fucking insane, what the hell but, and its just really important to me that Im not trying to be bitchy or defensive in any way by saying what Im about to say, but nowadays theres kind of a vogue for punk singers doing acoustic records. Theres nothing wrong with that, but that vogue really did not exist, certainly not in my corner of the punk scene, five years ago when I was making these decisions. I mean theres was Chuck [Ragan, of Hot Water Music] and there was Mike Ness [of Social Distortion] I suppose but that was about it. And a lot of people, well pretty much everyone was just like youre fucking crazy, what the hell are you talking about whereas now, its a much better worn path. You know what I mean? That doesnt make me a better human being than everybody else but it was a kind of a weird choice to make. And its kind of funny because I just remember at the time everything made perfect sense, it was all fine, and now looking back Im like I was totally mental.
Yeah I was on the way over here trying to explain to my friend who you were, your transition and everything and he said oh yeah like that Edward Sharpe guy and I was like, yeah I guess it is becoming somewhat more commonplace.
Yeah, and like I say, theres nothing strictly wrong with that but its just like kind of part of my pride, if you like, has something to say like . It was a more challenging decision to make in 2005 than in 2010.
As you said, Million Dead did okay in the U.K., so did you already have a built in audience over there when you went solo?
Yeah, although an awful lot of them really did not get what I was trying to do. And I mean it was . everyone tries to pretend they dont have an ego but everyone does have an ego, and like the Million Dead farewell tour we did, we were playing to like 500 people a show, and then my first solo tour I went out and I was playing, I think the largest crowd was 50 and the smallest was one. You know what I mean? And at the end of the day, ones pride takes a beating in that case. It was like, literally two months ago, I would play a show with my band and 500 people show up and now its like one person here like what the fuck? The first year of being solo was not the most fun Ive ever had in my life. And it was kind of tied in with me having some personal issues and stuff at the time, but, like I said earlier it all paid off. And also, to throw in a philosophical point, any musicians complaining about any of the business of being a musician are full of shit anyways, because at the end of the day you could just not do it, you know what I mean? People complain about touring, its like Cool, go home. No ones gonna care. (laughs)
So you did that in the U.K., toured and built up an audience for your solo career. After a while did you also have to come do the same thing over in the states?
Yeah, although its been kinda different in the states, like I came over and did whole bunch of touring around. I toured with Fake Problems for a while and I toured with Look Mexico, a band from Austin, Texas So I did a whole bunch of like those kind of tours, and its been kind of different, because then Epitaph stepped in and Ive been working with them as a label so that obviously ramped everything up to a degree, and Chuck Ragan from Hot Water has actually been an amazing help for me in my career in the states, and I owe him more beers than money can buy. So it hasnt been exactly the same, the U.K. was literally from nothing to something, whereas the states have been from something to something a little more, or hopefully (laughs) but at any rate, were still climbing this mountain.
But its cool, I mean the funny thing is – its hard to kind of explain what this means to an American boy, Im assuming, but theres something about because America is so culturally enthralled to the states, generally speaking, and particularly in the business of rock and roll, and theres something about touring America that is just so kind of iconic. And even if your tour of America is going badly, youre still touring America. Theres still a kind of theres a kudos to it, as an English boy. Its like, Shit man, Im fucking touring America! Even if youre in Little Rock, Arkansas and only ten people show up to your show, youre still like Im in fucking America on my tour and it kind of works I guess.
Has that kind of thing been happening on your tour?
Actually, do you know Jon Snodgrass? Hes a singer, he plays in Drag the River and Armchair Martian and shit like that. Me and him were on tour last year and we played a show in Little Rock, Arkansas and about ten people showed up, and me and him were just like, who gives a shit? So we put our chairs down on the floor and went out and played the show and then Jon bought a bottle of whiskey from the bar and at one point bought a shot for everybody in the room the barstop, the audience, the crew, fucking everyone and after the show, me and Jon were hammered drunk and we wrote a song together in 15 minutes called Big Rock in Little Rock. Its a tune about how those kind of shows can be the best and if you have a problem with that kind of shit then youre in it for the wrong reasons. So yeah it took us 15 minutes to write and record the song, so this summer Im going to his house in Fort Collins and were gonna try to make an album in two days. Hes got an old school tape machine and a handle of whisky and were just gonna fucking see what happens.
Oh cool, my next question was going to be about a possible follow-up for Poetry of the Deed, so is that your next project?
Well, thats probably going to happen, I mean when thatll be released it might be total bullshit anyways so maybe itll never be released, but even if its great, Im not sure when it would be released. I mean Im of the opinion of just record and release, who gives a shit. So thats kind of going on, and Ive got a couple of irons in fires, like Ive got a kind of evil-electro side project thing Ive been working on with a friend of mine, and Im writing a book of my own, which is, it turns out, a lot more work than I thought it would be. (laughs) Also, Im gonna be in the studio in January making a new record. Id say about more than half of it is written. Im gonna play a bunch of new shit tonight, actually, so you can decide how you feel about it. I mean Ive done an album a year the last three years or four years, well and then I put out a live record this year so that kind of counts. And then Ill put out a record next year as well to kind of keep up my work ethic.
Is the book youre writing autobiographical?
Well, well I got asked to write a book and I was like, no. Because I hate autobiographies when theyre anything less than to me, you need one of the following two things to write an autobiography. You either need to be over 70, or you need to have won an international award. Those are your two fucking options, (laughs) neither of which count for me. I spoke to the publisher and his idea was to just make it like a tour diaries kind of thing. It doesnt have any kind of intentions of being this overarching story of my life. Im a storyteller, thats what I do for a living on some basic level. I can spin a yard, I can talk a lot, as youre currently witnessing, and he was just like fuck dude, because I know the publisher quite well, and whenever I get drunk I sit around just telling stories about the tour. And he was just like, just fucking write a bunch of them down and well publish it. And I was like… okay. So thats kind of whats happening.
So youve got this show, then back to the U.K. for a tour, then back to the states for another tour
Yeah just ping-ponging back and forth indefinitely forever.
So will you be testing some of this new material out of the road?
Yeah, but its kinda weird. Whenever I do solo tours its easier for me to play new stuff, for band shows obviously theres four more people who need to rehearse the new material, but Im working on getting them rehearsed up. So hopefully well have some new stuff for the band as well.
I just noticed you have a tattoo of the state of Texas on your arm. I wouldnt expect that from an Englishman. Whats the story there?
Well, I got really fucking drunk in Texas – at SXSW last year and basically I had just signed a record deal, so I was in a good mood, and then I dont know if you know a band called the Van Pelt? They were an indie band from like the mid-90s, I had never seen them play because they never toured outside of the states, but they did a one-off reunion tour that so I was like fuck! so there was that and then when youre in Texas, drugs are cheaper and stronger, so everything just kind of went to shit. Then I woke up the next day with a tattoo of Texas on my arm! (laughs) Like an asshole. The worst part is, my mom hates tattoos, well Im one of those people that Ive got like a really long, boring, tedious explanation for all of my tattoos, its really philosophical and cultural and the rest of it, so I kinda talked her into this whole thing that theres a kind of philosophical explanation for me getting these done and she just about bought it and then I came home with a fucking tattoo of Texas that I got when I was piss drunk and she was like AHHH! and I was like, shit, I just lost this argument.